[Green-Activist] afterthought to roy... Spiralling cost of bananas... not very mellow!
Roy Garner
rrgarner at bigpond.net.au
Sun May 7 13:44:42 EST 2006
Dear Anne,
I guess the best advice that progressive environmentalists can give
each other is to "hold your nerve!" or "Hang on, it's going to be a
hell of a ride!"
For ecological pest control, you could start at The Permaculture
Research Institute http://permaculture.org.au/index.php?page_id=28
You might also try www.sgaonline.org.au/emag/0305.pdf
Or NATURAL PEST CONTROL USING ALTERNATIVES TO COMMERCIAL SYNTHETIC
CHEMICALS (BIO-CIDES) at
http://www.permacult.com.au/research/natural_pest_control.html
and many others on the 'net if you google it!
Anne, I don't think anyone's comments are "silly"; rather they reflect
the deep concern that people have about an uncertain future, though
more uncertain if we, the ordinary folk, don't have a role in the
decision-making process.
On interest rates, is there anyone who believes that the Reserve Bank
is independent?
Cheers,
Roy
On 07/05/2006, at 1:19 AM, Anne Goddard wrote:
> also Roy...
>
> as an afterthought? how u gonna get time to do all that gardening and
> caring for crops, watering and mulching, while your working 50 hours a
> week and trying to raise the obligatory 2.5 kids society demands???
> remember not to use pesticides then the bugs eat 4 or 6 months of
> work...
> and dont forget to "add" to the forums...
> do research and answer my and my "silly little" comments?
>
> it's kinda hard u know, and wont get easier as interest rates rise.
>
> I dont have a mortgage thank the goddess... but i do have rates :-(
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roy Garner
> To: maillist for Green Activists
> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Spiralling cost of bananas... not very
> mellow!
>
> Hi, Anne
> Yes, I agree that's the way to go. If only more of us could cut the
> umbilical cord of dependency and practise what we preach--start a
> vegie patch at home, watch Peter Cundall and his team on Gardening
> Australia, apply permaculture methods and form coops to swap (barter)
> produce, or buy and distribute it to members!
> It's clear to me that the problems and costs of food distribution will
> multiply once the fossil fuel crisis really hits.
> If anyone thinks this is far-fetched, read the Real Oil Crisis, in the
> ABC Catalyst archive at
> http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1515141.htm
> Read on...
> Narration: What would happen if the world started running out of oil?
> Jeremy Leggett: It’s going to be very difficult to get gasoline for
> transport. Food is not going to be getting through in enough
> quantities to the shops,
> Narration: Conventional wisdom says that’s at least 30 years away.
> So why does a growing group of petroleum experts believe it’s coming
> within three?
> Eric Streitberg: Ah. I think it’s happening now frankly.
> Peter Newman: It gives me nightmares when I think about what we’re
> headed for.
> Narration: Are they just scaremongerers or have the rest of us been
> asleep at the wheel. Are we about to hit the real oil crisis?
> Jeremy Leggett: Really when the crisis dawns I think people are going
> to be looking back in anger. How have we allowed ourselves to get into
> this mess?
> Narration: In just a century, we’ve allowed our lives to become
> entirely dependent on cheap oil.
> Jonica Newby, Reporter: And it’s not just that 90% of our
> transportation is fuelled by oil. This shopping centre is literally
> full of petroleum products.
> Look: the fabric in these clothes – petroleum based. These plastics,
> petroleum based. It takes on average 6 barrels of oil just to bring
> one cow to market.
> Narration: Yet who of us stops to think oil is a finite resource - the
> lifeblood of our modern world is steadily pouring away.
> Jeremy Leggett: We just take it so much for granted that cars drive
> around, the pumps are always full. I talk to people in financial
> institutions who are investing on the assumption that oil supplies are
> going to grow and grow into the 2030’s. I hardly ever meet anyone who
> knows about this problem outside a relatively elite group of
> whistleblowers inside and around the oil industry.
> Narration: Dr Jeremy Leggett is part of an international splinter
> group of petroleum geologists convinced a tipping point on oil is
> imminent.
> This former oil industry insider, now alternative energy advocate, has
> written a new book outlining the case.
> It makes startling reading.
> The most oil ever discovered was way back in 1965.
> Narration: This graph traces world oil discoveries.
> Since 1965, the amount of oil discovered each year has inexorably
> plunged - despite all our advances in technology.
> Jeremy Leggett: The last time we discovered a whole new province was
> the North Sea in the early 1970’s and really you know these days the
> average size of an oil field that gets discovered is about 50 million
> barrels. It’s nothing, it’s a drop in the ocean. We’re using 84
> million barrels a day.
> The last year we discovered more oil than we consumed was 1981.
> We use 2 barrels of oil for every barrel discovered.
> Jeremy Leggett: I’ve been talking to people who I know because of my
> past in these big oil companies and they tell me there are no more big
> oil fields left to find.
> Narration: So if we’ve found nearly all the world’s oil, how long
> before it runs out?
> Surprisingly, that’s not so important. The real question is when will
> we reach half way – it’s known as 'peak oil'.
> Jonica Newby, Reporter: So what exactly is peak oil, and why is it so
> serious? That’s what I’m heading to the west Australian oil fields to
> find out.
> Narration: My guide is a geologist from deep within the oil industry.
> Eric Streitberg is managing director of Australian oil company, ARK
> energy.
> He’s just decided to go public with his fears.
> Eric Streitberg: The reason I feel strongly about this is that people
> don’t understand the underlying causes of why petrol prices are going
> up and what the effect that could have on our lives.
> Narration: Eric is about to show me what happens when an oil field
> reaches peak oil.
> Eric Streitberg: The oil field was discovered in 2001 and its now on
> full production doing about 6000 barrels of oil a day which is about
> 10% of Western Australia’s consumption.
> Jonica Newby, Reporter: Wow: 10%.
> Narration: When oil is first pumped, it’s under pressure and comes out
> easily – production rises.
> But over time, oil pressure drops. Water is pumped in to maintain
> pressure. At the half way point, it reaches peak oil, and then-
> Eric Streitberg: We’re holding on to peak production at the moment but
> we’ll be going into the inexorable decline of all oil fields very
> shortly.
> Jonica Newby, Reporter: Really, and there’s nothing you can do?
> Eric Streitberg: No you can slow the decline but you can’t stop it.
> Narration: To ram home the point, Eric takes me to an oil field which
> passed peak oil in 1992.
> Eric Streitberg: Jonica this is what we are getting out of this old
> oil well. It’s 99% water and 1% oil.
> Narration: All oil fields follow the same pattern of rise, peak, then
> fall – even if they encompass an entire nation.
> The US hit peak oil in 1971. The UK with its North Sea oil peaked in
> 1999. Australia peaked in 2000.
> So when will planet earth reach peak oil?
> That depends on what’s really happening here. The place that provides
> a quarter of the world's oil - the Middle East.
> Jeremy Leggett: These governments have not let anyone in to verify how
> much oil they have for getting on for a quarter of a century and in
> the 1980’s there were some really suspicious treatment of oil reserves
> data. Most of the Gulf countries increased their national proved
> reserves supposedly by in some cases up to double, and then ever since
> the quoted figures have not gone down very much at all. I don’t
> believe that for a minute.
> Narration: The dissident geologists went back to original surveys to
> estimate total Middle East oil. They added world known reserves, and
> projections of all future oil to be discovered.
> That’s how they calculated the world will reach peak oil in the next 3
> years – if we’re not there already.
> Jeremy Leggett: 2008 maybe 2009, certainly no later than 2010. That’s
> the point at which we will no longer be living in a world with growing
> supplies of generally cheap oil but instead living in a world of
> rapidly shrinking supplies of ever vastly more expensive oil and that
> point of realisation is going to come as a real shock.
> Then we will see world record oil prices. Who knows how high they can
> go.
> Narration: So what does the mainstream think?
> The world's largest petroleum company is ExxonMobil – Esso. It employs
> 20,000 scientists to generate their own exhaustive data sets.
> In their Melbourne 3D seismography room, I meet head of exploration,
> geologist Dr Doug Schwebel.
> Doug Schwebel: OK this is a 3 dimensional image of the geology
> offshore Bass Strait in Victoria.
> Narration: Doug acknowledges oil will run down eventually, he just
> vigorously disputes when.
> Doug Schwebel: Well people have been predicting for over a hundred
> years that we’re going to run out of oil. It hasn’t happened. We don’t
> think it’s going to happen in the near term.
> Narration: Exxon calculates twice as much oil left in the world as the
> so called 'early peakers' - placing peak oil decades away.
> Doug Schwebel: I mean we’re talking at least out to 2030 with what we
> know today. And then potentially another 20 – 30 years beyond that
> with technologies that we can envisage might exist. You know if we can
> improve technology by only 10% then we can recover an additional 600 –
> 800 billion barrels of oil.
> Narration: If this majority view is correct, we have plenty of time
> for a smooth, market driven transition to alternatives via hybrid
> cars.
> Cruising in the balm of this reassuring future, it's tempting to
> dismiss the 'early peak' camp entirely, as a small bunch of vested
> interest doomsdayers.
> But it’s not that easy.
> Petroleum giant Chevron is now running these startling advertisements.
>
> And here in Australia, some surprising people have come out in the
> early peak camp.
> Earlier this year, Eric Streitberg asked an extraordinary question at
> the Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association
> conference.
> Eric Streitberg: I asked them to put up their hands if they thought
> that we had reached peak oil. Fifty percent of the people in the
> audience put up their hand saying that they believe we’re at peak oil
> and these are practicing petroleum industry professionals.
> Narration: So what if they’re right?
> This is what the early peak camp are terrified of – an apocalyptic
> gulf between dwindling supply and rising demand from the voracious
> east.
> Jeremy Leggett: It’s panic that causes collapses in markets. People
> start selling their shares. That’s what happened in October 1929 and
> it just snowballs.
> Eric Streitberg: Rationing - people having to queue for three days to
> get a tank full of petrol, people not being able to afford to heat
> their houses.
> Peter Newman: Getting to 2 to 3 to 4 dollars a litre you really are
> grinding to a halt.
> Narration: But couldn’t we just switch to alternatives – like solar
> cars or hydrogen?
> Professor Peter Newman should know. He’s been trying to prepare his
> home town of Perth with a post-petroleum transport system - which
> includes Australia’s first hydrogen buses.
> Peter Newman: This is a transition that can’t be done overnight.
> Hydrogen technology is being developed but it’s a 20 year program.
> Jonica Newby, Reporter: Twenty years?
> Peter Newman: Yeah, the next 20 years are an absolute critical point
> where I don’t know that we can make it. I just feel we haven’t started
> soon enough.
> Narration: The trouble is, if peak oil is imminent, other mooted oil
> substitutes, like biofuels, tar sands, shale oil, could only yield a
> fraction of the world's needs.
> And no one can think of an alternative fuel for aeroplanes.
> Jeremy Leggett: So I’ve looked at it all and I don’t see a way of
> closing the gap quickly enough. That’s the honest and depressing
> answer. It’s all about renaissance. It’s all about how quickly we can
> repair the problems and get an alternative infrastructure after the
> crisis breaks.
> Narration: Whether we reach the end of cheap oil in 3 years or 30, it
> will be a defining moment for human society.
> Even if there’s only a one in ten chance the early peakers are right,
> with the lifeblood of our economy at stake, shouldn’t we listen, just
> in case.
> Eric Streitberg: If people like myself are taking the view that they
> need to speak out, I think it’s time to start taking it seriously.
> Peter Newman: We have lots of preparedness for terrorist attacks; but
> where’s the plan for peak oil? We don’t have one.
> Jeremy Leggett: I think the interesting thing about the problem is
> that we’ll find out. We’ll find out who’s right really soon, within a
> few years it will happen and play out on our watch.
> Story Contacts
>
> Dr Doug Schwebel
> Geologist
> ExxonMobil
>
> Barry Jones (the late)
> Former Executive Director
> Australian Petroleum Produciton Exploration Association (APPEA)
>
> Dr Jeremy Leggett
> Geologist / author
>
>
> Eric Streitberg
> Managing Director
> ARC Energy
>
> John Ellice-Flint
> Managing Director
> Santos
>
> Prof. Peter Newman
> Transport Academic
> Murdoch University
>
>
> On 06/05/2006, at 10:13 PM, Anne Goddard wrote:
>
>> spose..?
>> or you and other list members could order a bunch bundy boxes of
>> nannies straight to you? for yourselves and friends?
>> friend of mine sells passionfruit, is happy getting $18 a box when
>> prices are high. I hear they are getting $25 a box on resale.. and u
>> guys pay $1 per passionfruit?
>>
>> seems lots of middle man mark up through the supermarkets.
>>
>> for $20 i can supply my self with plenty of locally grown
>> fresh veggies and food comfortably if i buy at our markets... the
>> same amount costs me between $50 to $100 from the supermarket.
>>
>> We pay for convenience. Simple as that.
>>
>> Regards
>> Anne
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Roy Garner
>> To: maillist for Green Activists
>> Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 5:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Spiralling cost of bananas... not very
>> mellow!
>>
>> Hi, again Anne
>> Not much on ABC's Landline
>> http://www.abc.net.au/landline/archives/
>> LandlineSubjectIndx_Bananas.htm Only two stories, one from July 2002
>> (Banana grower turns waste into wine), and November 2001 (Scientists
>> research banana disease).
>> Perhaps we could request they investigate?
>> Cheers,
>> Roy
>>
>> On 06/05/2006, at 4:22 PM, Anne Goddard wrote:
>>
>>> hiya Roy...
>>>
>>> boy, you would get some bender growers noses out of joint suggesting
>>> to
>>> import i think...
>>>
>>> for example, what sort of procedures would need to be put into place
>>> to
>>> protect the local industries from overseas diseases? how stringently
>>> would
>>> those procedures be policed?
>>> I rescued many green tree frogs from cool room mango and banana
>>> boxes (from
>>> Queensland) whilst living in Sydney. These delightful little animals
>>> are now
>>> serving out their lives getting very fat and well cared for behind
>>> glass at
>>> Taronga now.
>>>
>>> Unable to be returned home due to the dangers of their importing live
>>> disease back.
>>>
>>> Importing is dangerous.
>>>
>>> However, keeping an eye on prices, and refusing to pay exorbitant
>>> rates
>>> should encourage honesty.
>>>
>>> The local bananas i buy have not increased in price though the
>>> majour chain
>>> stores prices seem to have doubled. So from what i can see, if you
>>> buy
>>> locally, from undamaged crops, your pretty right. However, if you
>>> have no
>>> choice but to buy in majour supermarket chain stores, the prices have
>>> doubled (here) in some stores, not a happy state for our city
>>> dwellers.
>>>
>>> Therefore my first hand report from bundaberg..
>>>
>>> In banana producing rural areas (crop unaffected by storms -
>>> probably a
>>> bumper season) prices are stable, in the larger market, they are
>>> being
>>> heavily affected by price increases.
>>>
>>> Says something for growing locally doesnt it.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Anne
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Roy Garner" <rrgarner at bigpond.net.au>
>>> To: "maillist for Green Activists"
>>> <green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 2:05 PM
>>> Subject: [Green-Activist] Spiralling cost of bananas
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Activists,
>>> Just after Cyclone Larry, concerns were expressed about profiteering
>>> because of alleged shortages in the supply of bananas, but they were
>>> just as quickly dropped, and consumers have been left in the dark as
>>> to
>>> why the price of bananas has gone through the ceiling, topping $10 in
>>> Sydney, with rumours putting the price as high as $15 in some places.
>>> The high costs of transportation and remoteness of alternative
>>> supplies
>>> are cited as reasons for the price hike, but without a comprehensive
>>> investigation, consumers' suspicions will not be laid to rest, with
>>> the
>>> truth benders vying with the banana benders for centre stage.
>>> If you're unhappy with the prices, you can help the push to uncover
>>> the
>>> truth by registering your complaint with the Australian Competition
>>> and
>>> Consumer Commission at
>>> http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217/fromItemId/
>>> 3634
>>> But the ACCC won't really act unless you can give them evidence of
>>> collusion to fix process. So please put the word around and gather
>>> the
>>> evidence, if you can.
>>> Some questions you might ask:
>>> What is the true extent of the crop loss, and are there sufficient
>>> reserves in storage to supply local markets until the new season
>>> bananas come on stream?
>>> Are banana growers in areas not affected by the cyclone exporting
>>> their
>>> best bananas rather than sending them to local markets?
>>> Would importing bananas help bring the prices down?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Roy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Green-Activist mailing list
>>> Green-Activist at lists.altnews.com.au
>>> http://lists.altnews.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/green-activist
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Green-Activist mailing list
>>> Green-Activist at lists.altnews.com.au
>>> http://lists.altnews.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/green-activist
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Green-Activist mailing list
>> Green-Activist at lists.altnews.com.au
>> http://lists.altnews.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/green-activist
>> _______________________________________________
>> Green-Activist mailing list
>> Green-Activist at lists.altnews.com.au
>> http://lists.altnews.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/green-activist
> _______________________________________________
> Green-Activist mailing list
> Green-Activist at lists.altnews.com.au
> http://lists.altnews.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/green-activist
> _______________________________________________
> Green-Activist mailing list
> Green-Activist at lists.altnews.com.au
> http://lists.altnews.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/green-activist
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 20915 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.altnews.com.au/pipermail/green-activist/attachments/20060507/222779e9/attachment.bin
More information about the Green-Activist
mailing list