[Green-Activist] Iraqi war statistics, from Information Clearing House
frank
wetherbystn at bigpond.com
Mon Jun 18 17:07:40 EST 2007
Can't argue with that lot Roy.
Not even, " though the way you put it, seems you think everyone else left their brains in the parking lot, no?" Which is exactly how i try to write. I do that because, if i don't, detractors insist on acting as if that's exactly what they've done and miss the point entirely. Deliberately, mostly, i'm well aware. In a sense, it's a defense mechanism.
By the way, besides being a greenie first, i'm a leftie. I totally support democracy. That's mob rule. U can't get further left than that! I stand for nobody having the right to dictate to anybody else. Can't get any further left than that. However, the people who claim to be left these days have been manipulated by right wing Christians, among others but those others, work for the former, whether they know it or not, and are further to the right now than the right used to be. The "right", now, is Nazi, the "left", even the far left, is a bastardized version of everything left of that.
In my book, the right represents repression and domination and the left stands for individual freedom and democratic rule. Anyone who isn't totally committed to those goals isn't left in my book. That's black and white. All the grey, is smoke and mirrors. In other words, BULL SHIT!
Seeing as u had a go at sussing me, i'll return the favor. An old, (around 60), maybe x Communist party member, on the fringes anyway, long time activist, (Viet Vietnam, street marches ext) a bit revered by other people of the same ilk. I sense getting a tad disillusioned that maybe, just maybe, what u've spent a lifetime working for, has been hi-jacked.
I'm flooded in at the moment, so i haven't got any scones in the oven.
frank brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Garner
To: maillist for Green Activists
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Iraqi war statistics,from Information Clearing House
Sure seems to be all mixed up here, Frank. I don't have any difficulty agreeing with you on some issues, though the way you put it, seems you think everyone else left their brains in the parking lot, no? I know you'll agree with me that it's not all black and white the way it used to be in the days of Hitler and Stalin and the fanatical certainty these monsters created. But also there are some who still play it that way, like Bush, Howard and Blair.
"Coward" is what you may be if your back's against the wall and the assault troops are kicking in the door, but living to fight another day is to my mind more important than fatal histrionics. It's a metaphor, I know, and the message is we must face our accusers. Sad, very sad and tragic that a generation of young Australian youth were sucked into the Vietnam vortex because their society ill-prepared them for dissent, and failed to give them the NO word. Urban myth promoted by jingoists was that the anti-war movement was attacking the Viet conscripts. Some did, but the majority demanded "Bring the Troops Home!". Their dispute was with the cynical politicians who sent them to their deaths in the Viet quagmire. And the same blood-stained murderers are still ruling the roost in Australia today.
Oh, dear, the scones are burning, see ya!
On 17/06/2007, at 5:13 PM, frank wrote:
U got some of the point Roy. Even to the point of what i "sound" like. Firstly, "u lefties", I'll Quote U, "Resource wars, yes, have no problem with that, Bind Freddy knows. Blame the power-holders? Sure can. Blame the manipulative information barons? Sure can. But blame common folk downtrodden by their daily lot? Walking on dangerous ground here, Frank." U actually agreed with me there. Even though u tried very hard not to admit it.
Carrot munching hippy? I've got a bit of that in me, but nowhere near as much as u're intimating. Powerless place? If i've been amazed by anything in this life, it at the power this place i rage from possesses.
As for Ned and his mates, every one of us is totally responsible for where our actions lead us. What they epitomize is that they took responsibility for those actions and stood by their principals to the end. Something that cowards don't do. By the way, i'm one of those cowards compared to them. I haven't let the system kill me. But i have stood by my principals, and will, to the end.
Blame everyone, rich or poor? Think about it. If u blame everyone the blame game is pointless. U can then focus on fixing the problem. That's the job after all.
frank brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Garner
To: maillist for Green Activists
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Iraqi war statistics,from Information Clearing House
You sure paint with a broad brush, Frank, and make unfounded assumptions about "u lefties". Not sure that folk heroes can really help solve society's problems. There are a lot of wily people who have defined themselves against the interests of dominant individuals or classes without offering themselves up as sacrificial lambs or hunted outlaws. Statements like 'cowardly scum' who 'deserve all they get' sort of suggests you are raging at the world from a powerless place, no?
I'm sure if I ran into you in some remote health food store where I could see the whites of your eyes, I'd find you to be just another old hippy softy munching into your carrot cake and reminiscing about the Aquarius festival!
Resource wars, yes, have no problem with that, Bind Freddy knows. Blame the power-holders? Sure can. Blame the manipulative information barons? Sure can. But blame common folk downtrodden by their daily lot? Walking on dangerous ground here, Frank. If you want to suggest complicity between common folk and dictatorial leaders, well, yes, we've sure seen enough of that. ...
'Scuse me, Frank, I've got to take a loaf out of the oven...
On 17/06/2007, at 2:11 PM, frank wrote:
Expect more resource wars then. The people won't have the guts to rid themselves of the maniacs they allow to control their destiny, so plenty more of them will die in the kayos as water rises and oil runs out.
Right whack! If, as i suspect, they are too cowardly to get out from under the yoke. Cowardly scum allowed this to happen. Cowardly scum deserve all they get!
U see Roy, unlike u lefties i don't blame big business or multinationals. Sure, they are raping this country and the world. But they are only doing this because ordinary people, (the u's and me's), are allowing them to do so. We are to blame. All of us.
Nowhere else in the world has a population had the role models Australia has had. The likes of Ned Kelly, Ben Hall, Darkey Gardner and others set an example of not allowing the system to ride rough shod over the little man with impunity, that is unique in the world. Australians have less excuse than anywhere else for allowing our system to be as bad, if not worse, than anywhere else.
frank brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Garner
To: maillist for Green Activists
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Iraqi war statistics,from Information Clearing House
Sure is, Frank, and the bloody stuff's running out.
On 15/06/2007, at 8:37 PM, frank wrote:
Dear Oil?????
frank brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Garner
To: maillist for Green Activists
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: [Green-Activist] Iraqi war statistics,from Information Clearing House
Number Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's War On Iraq - At Least 655,000 + +
http://tinyurl.com/usq4x
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In America'sWar On Iraq 3513
http://icasualties.org/oif/
The War in Iraq Costs
$434,486,289,062
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