[Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances vs.Aust Pensioners
frank
wetherbystn at bigpond.com
Sat Jun 7 20:53:13 EST 2008
The reason what u say is undoubtedly true is largely down to a few stooges
coupled with the inexperience of people who are genuine. They think The
Greens can play conventional politics and win eventually. That will never
happen, simply because the major parties won't allow it.
They will manipulate the system, break laws, do whatever it takes to see
that The Greens never obtain power. Unless of coarse, they are in charge of
the party. But even then i think they'd continue to use that control to
discredit The Greens as they use it now.
If The Greens used a bit of lateral thinking, coupled with unconventional
politics those goals u set could be easily achieved and excelled. It's up
to the rank and file of the party to achieve this.
frank brown
----- Original Message -----
From: "bill&mika" <mikabill at aapt.net.au>
To: "maillist for Green Activists" <green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances vs.Aust Pensioners
> hi all. Here in SA there is a move to the right with members wanting to
> support businesses that are or show green attributes . They are pushing
> a more pro capitalist system as the talk is on how green these companies
> are rather than how will they treat their workers etc. Will these
> companies move to share the wealth that will come as the world moves to
> greening itself? Would these same companies pay equal wages compared to
> what their managers receive? I don't think so. We will sell out the
> worker and the poor in support of capitalism. We give preferences to
> capitalist anti people parties when we should leave that for the voter
> and stop being the ALP stooges. The ALP is more problematic than the
> Libs bringing in anti worker/ community laws/policies by stealth. The
> Greens failed in the 2007 federal election and will need to win a swag
> of lower house seats in the coming federal and state election. There is
> no value in having a few senators that make noise but cannot do
> anything constructive when what is needed is to be a true opposition.
> In SA the independent Xenaphon is receiving all the media exposure on
> green issues while our new senator elect gets none. So to me success
> will be double the senators and at least 1 lower house seat per state (
> more in NSW and Vic) on a state election level i would expect that 3 - 5
> lower house seats should be achievable because of Global Warming etc.
> regards bill
>
>
>
>
> frank wrote:
>> Dear Chris,
>>
>> Most of what u say is absolutely correct. However, i'd argue that u
>> can't
>> achieve the goals unless democracy is religiously practiced within The
>> Greens party itself. I know for a fact that it was never practised
>> religiously in Queensland the 20 odd years i was in the party.
>>
>> Sure, a semblance of democracy was and is practised. But that isn't
>> good
>> enough.
>>
>> I'm used to being, "ahead of my time", things are only starting to happen
>> now, i was ridiculed for advocating 40 years ago.
>>
>> This isn't about me, it's about the environment! If The Greens can't
>> "practise what they preach", they're just another mainstream party who'll
>> very likely end up getting everything killed.
>>
>> frank brown
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Chaplin & Jenny Heland Chaplin" <chrisjen at techinfo.com.au>
>> To: "maillist for Green Activists" <green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 11:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances vs.Aust Pensioners
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>> I'm the national secretary and I'm a socialist. I can't speak for the
>>> others in senior positions but from my personal experience of over three
>>> years as a national officebearer and a total of 8 years attending
>>> national
>>> meetings, I can say that I've never heard anyone being "pro capitalist".
>>> And if you mean "right wing" in its usual sense - i.e. holding the core
>>> conservative ideals of a deregulated economy, low taxes for the wealthy,
>>> deregulated labour market (anti-union), small government and residualist
>>> social policy ("charity" rather than universal welfare), and the
>>> superiority
>>> of individual liberties - then I have never met anyone in the Greens who
>>> fits this description.
>>>
>>> There are, of course, Greens members who hold different views from you,
>>> me
>>> or Frank. We're a diverse bunch. And like any organisation, there are
>>> personal politics, allegiances, and people who put achievement of goals
>>> (either personal or political) ahead of process and principle. Some
>>> people
>>> thrive in this tough environment. Some people fight the good fight but
>>> hate
>>> having to do so, and some of these burn out and leave. Some members
>>> never
>>> get involved enough to see the politics within the organisation. Some
>>> members see it and leave. Some Greens supporters expect it so never
>>> join.
>>>
>>> There are also huge differences between states. What has happened in SA
>>> and
>>> Qld could never happen in WA. The structure in Tas or Vic would never
>>> be
>>> adopted in NSW. There are 8 autonomous Greens parties in Australia, so
>>> it's
>>> ridiculous to describe "the Greens" based on one's personal experience
>>> in
>>> one state. I can assure you that after the 3-year savaging I took in
>>> the
>>> Victorian Greens in defence of process and principle and in opposition
>>> to
>>> centralised domination, I would have resigned from the party if not for
>>> two
>>> things: (1) the party collectively is so much better than the occasional
>>> lapses in individual states, and (2) there simply IS no other vehicle
>>> for
>>> achieving the things we progressive folk hold dear - social justice,
>>> non-violence, protecting the environment, participatory democracy.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to criticise anyone who gives up or gets out. Politics is
>>> bloody tough. You need support if you're taking on the empire-builders,
>>> centralists, fools and pragmatists. Even harder is how to survive
>>> without
>>> your support group becoming an actual faction, because down that path
>>> lies
>>> death for the Left, as we saw in Qld.
>>>
>>> I've written all this before, and maybe it's a waste of time. We
>>> long-term
>>> list members know where we all stand on most things. We're actually
>>> united
>>> on all the core issues (well, maybe excepting Frank), but it's always
>>> easier
>>> to point out the differences than to celebrate the commonalities. Bill,
>>> I
>>> understand your experience and I empathise, but if Greens like yourself
>>> stay
>>> on and continue to stand up for the Charter, you'll find that in only 2
>>> or
>>> 3
>>> years the political cycle will have come around again. There are too
>>> many
>>> good people in the party to allow it to stray for long. And there is
>>> too
>>> great a need for Greens to be in government, for us not to keep fighting
>>> for
>>> a strong, principled and successful party at all levels.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "bill&mika" <mikabill at aapt.net.au>
>>> To: "maillist for Green Activists" <green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 10:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances vs.Aust Pensioners
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Frank. Im just wondering since you left the Greens how successful
>>>> you
>>>> have of deposing the major parties? I have not seen your name in either
>>>> federal or state parliament. As for the Greens being run by ALP stooges
>>>> i
>>>> have to disagree and say they are being run by pro capitalist right
>>>> wing
>>>> people and this is increasing as they try to win seats at all costs.
>>>> regards bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> frank wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry Daniel,
>>>>> It's u who should get u're facts straight. 20 + years in The
>>>>> Greens has given me all the facts i'll ever need. The Greens will
>>>>> never
>>>>> be a true environmental party while labour stooges control the key
>>>>> management positions. And while these people are constantly allowed
>>>>> to
>>>>> bully party members who oppose them till they give up and resign.
>>>>> I will restate this wasn't true in my case. In fact, i demonstrated
>>>>> that by standing up to those bullying tactics, playing strictly by the
>>>>> rules, u could force the stooges to censure their own. Unfortunately,
>>>>> not enough greenies had the ticker for the job, so i resigned to
>>>>> pursue
>>>>> other avenues of deposing both major parties, restoring democracy and
>>>>> getting some real action going on the environment. As for "real venom
>>>>> ".
>>>>> It's the same real venom i feel towards any and all people and
>>>>> institutions who refuse to put the environment first, last and every
>>>>> other time.
>>>>> frank brown By the way. U any relation to Lenore Taylor. If u are,
>>>>> ask
>>>>> her about me.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* daniel taylor <mailto:danielsydney at hotmail.com>
>>>>> *To:* maillist for Green Activists
>>>>> <mailto:green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2008 1:47 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances vs.Aust
>>>>> Pensioners
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>> Now this is real venom I feel. That is uncalled for. The Greens
>>>>> are not a sham party or puppets of the ALP. I think Frank better
>>>>> get his facts correct before typing such vile lies.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel Taylor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: wetherbystn at bigpond.com <mailto:wetherbystn at bigpond.com>
>>>>> To: green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au
>>>>> <mailto:green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 13:29:35 +1000
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances vs.Aust
>>>>> Pensioners
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Chris,
>>>>> The bloke who sent it to me was asking for clarification. I
>>>>> was unable to do so because the information i have was dated.
>>>>> However, my information did show that refugees get
>>>>> approximately twice what pensioners are allowed. I didn't
>>>>> pass this on to him because this may no longer be the case.
>>>>> I assumed that someone would have the currant figures. I did
>>>>> inform him that he can obtain the currant figures under
>>>>> freedom of information from the government. As for the
>>>>> rest of your post. I never mentioned The Greens,
>>>>> or asked what they were doing. Simply because i'm fully aware
>>>>> that The Greens are nothing but a sham party doing the bidding
>>>>> of their Labour masters. Further, i'm fully aware of your
>>>>> part in this conspiracy.
>>>>> Therefore i'd suggest that crawl back under the rock
>>>>> from whence u came.
>>>>> frank brown
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* Chris Chaplin & Jenny Heland Chaplin
>>>>> <mailto:chrisjen at techinfo.com.au>
>>>>> *To:* maillist for Green Activists
>>>>> <mailto:green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2008 10:50 AM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances
>>>>> vs.Aust Pensioners
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's right Frank: circulate first, check the facts
>>>>> later. Did Pauline Hanson write this crap?
>>>>> The Greens have been crusading for ages on increasing all
>>>>> pensioner entitlements - without needing to call up the
>>>>> xenophobic dogs to support our argument. The following
>>>>> media release is an example of the Greens' ongoing
>>>>> campaign.
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Budget: Pensioners hopes blighted
>>>>>
>>>>> *14/05/08*
>>>>>
>>>>> The prospect of more than one million Australian
>>>>> pensioners getting help to meet soaring food, housing and
>>>>> transport costs has been buried by the 2008 budget,
>>>>> Australian Greens leader Bob Brown said today.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The budget leaves these grandest of Australia's working
>>>>> families struggling on the poverty line," Senator Brown
>>>>> said.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The Rudd government has spent $31 billion on inflationary
>>>>> tax cuts, $41 billion on 'future funds' for infrastructure
>>>>> and $22 billion on defence but has given zero to lift the
>>>>> meagre $273 per week pension. The budget should have,
>>>>> minimum, lifted single pensions from 59% to two thirds of
>>>>> pensions for couples. It should have delivered pensioners
>>>>> at least a $30 per week across-the-board income lift."
>>>>>
>>>>> Senator Brown said changes to indexation and utilities
>>>>> allowances did not address the inadequacy of the weekly
>>>>> pension rate to ensure a decent standard of living.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Treasurer Swan has gifted the big end of town with tax
>>>>> cuts boosting income every week, but left pensioners
>>>>> struggling with meagre weekly incomes which are a
>>>>> disgrace," Senator Brown said.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* frank <mailto:wetherbystn at bigpond.com>
>>>>> *To:* maillist for Green Activists
>>>>> <mailto:green-activist at lists.altnews.com.au>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:19 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* [Green-Activist] Fw: Refugee Allowances
>>>>> vs.Aust Pensioners
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* Robert Alan Connor
>>>>> <mailto:bobconnor at tadaust.org.au>
>>>>> *To:* Undisclosed-Recipient:;
>>>>> <mailto:Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:02 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Fw: Refugee Allowances vs.Aust Pensioners
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this true? How can we verify this ?
>>>>> Please send this to all your e-mail contacts.. Lets
>>>>> give the grubs in Canberra heaps.
>>>>> *****************************************
>>>>>
>>>>> Australian Govt Refugee Allowances vs.Aust Pensioners
>>>>>
>>>>> It is interesting that the* Federal Government
>>>>> provides* a Single Refugee with a monthly allowance of
>>>>> $1,890.00 and each can also get an additional $580. 00
>>>>> in Social Assistance, so a total of $2,470.00 per
>>>>> month. Family of 4 can receive $9,880.00 per month or
>>>>> yearly $118,685
>>>>>
>>>>> ** A single Australian pensioner who, after
>>>>> contributing to the growth and development of
>>>>> Australia for**** ****40 to 50 years, receives only a
>>>>> monthly maximum of $1,012.00 in old age pension****
>>>>> ****and Guaranteed Income Supplement. (Maybe our
>>>>> pensioners should apply as refugees!) **
>>>>>
>>>>> *Let's send this to all Australians so we can all be
>>>>> ticked off and maybe we can get the refugees cut back
>>>>> to $1,012.00 *and the pensioners up to $2,470.00**
>>>>> *and enjoy some of the money we are forced to submit
>>>>> to the Government in taxes.
>>>>> *** *Please** !!?? Forward to every Australian to
>>>>> expose what our elected politicians are doing to the
>>>>> over-taxed Australian*.
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
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